NewsGang and Gillmor Gang IRC Transcripts for 01/31/2009

Session Start: Sat Jan 31 00:00:00 2009
Session Ident: #newsgang-live
2009/01/31 [14:58] <+WebPixie> That new banner IS a nice. Whose eyes are those?
2009/01/31 [15:10] <+shareme> looks like Steve's eyes
2009/01/31 [15:51] <stevegillmor-1> you guys doing ok? Need my help for anything?
032009/01/31 [15:51] * stevegillmor-1 is now known as theagent-8603
2009/01/31 [15:59] <+WebPixie> was i mistaken about there being a GG at 1 PDT today via ustream?
2009/01/31 [16:00] <@theagent> No, I do believe they are trying to get a stream and show up and running
2009/01/31 [16:00] <+shareme> no
2009/01/31 [16:01] <+WebPixie> :)
2009/01/31 [16:03] <+hardaway> waiting...
2009/01/31 [16:03] <@theagent> Tina and Steve, do you guys have it worked out? Just yell if you need my help
2009/01/31 [16:03] <ustreamer-43767> the show has a start time of1:15 due to participant delay
2009/01/31 [16:03] <+WebPixie> I hear nohting
2009/01/31 [16:04] <ustreamer-43767> nothing yet
2009/01/31 [16:04] <@stevegillmor> ok for now jerry
2009/01/31 [16:04] <+WebPixie> cool, it's early yet
2009/01/31 [16:04] <@theagent> ok.. just making sure.
2009/01/31 [16:04] <@theagent> ;-)
2009/01/31 [16:04] <ustreamer-43767> thnkas Jer
2009/01/31 [16:04] <ustreamer-43767> <censored>, I'm unlogged
2009/01/31 [16:05] <@theagent> we have audio...
2009/01/31 [16:05] <+WebPixie> kinda crackly, but it's probably slow getting out here to the hinterland..steve sounds good
2009/01/31 [16:05] <+WebPixie> clear
2009/01/31 [16:05] <+shareme> good
2009/01/31 [16:05] <+hardaway> I hear your steve
2009/01/31 [16:06] <@theagent> we have audio... just no video
2009/01/31 [16:06] <+hardaway> I can hear
2009/01/31 [16:06] <@theagent> audio is clean
2009/01/31 [16:06] <+shareme> clear today
2009/01/31 [16:06] <+WebPixie> i hear steve on his muted line
2009/01/31 [16:06] <+WebPixie> heard one soft hello
2009/01/31 [16:06] <@theagent> steve is on two lines.. one will be muted the other not
2009/01/31 [16:06] <+hardaway> Did yesterday's show go up aywhere yet?
2009/01/31 [16:06] <+WebPixie> plus the occasional steve on his (?) muted line
2009/01/31 [16:07] <+WebPixie> that would be a superhero job of mixing if it has, fh!
2009/01/31 [16:10] <+WebPixie> plus it would probably mean no friday nite or saturday morning for Tina, with all that crackling, if it had
2009/01/31 [16:11] <+WebPixie> am i the only one hearing nothing?
2009/01/31 [16:11] <@theagent> no.. its quiet right now
2009/01/31 [16:11] <@theagent> again... start time is officially 1:15
2009/01/31 [16:11] <+WebPixie> thx
2009/01/31 [16:12] <TinaGillmor-1> we're waiting on our participants... start time should be 1:15 or close to it....please stand by
2009/01/31 [16:13] <+shareme> okay link tweeted
2009/01/31 [16:15] <ustreamer-61260> Ready for some NewsGang
2009/01/31 [16:16] <+jaybeats> Ya
2009/01/31 [16:16] <TinaGillmor-1> gillmor gang today
2009/01/31 [16:18] <+iPlant> that's what scoble was asking for a few weeks ago and got so much <censored> for
032009/01/31 [16:18] * ustreamer-65151 is now known as mask-648
2009/01/31 [16:19] <+WebPixie> is there such a thing as a ping-server or is there just no ping server with what they're talking about?
2009/01/31 [16:20] <+WebPixie> seems nobody knows who's in the chat
2009/01/31 [16:23] <+iPlant> what's keen's twitter name??
2009/01/31 [16:24] <TinaGillmor-1> not sure....trying to get that
2009/01/31 [16:25] <+hardaway> Can't follow him if we don't know his name. Branding:-)
2009/01/31 [16:25] <@theagent> Feldman in Texas has to be like Calacanis with laryngitis
2009/01/31 [16:25] <+hardaway> Feldman is having culture shock, I'm sure
2009/01/31 [16:28] <@theagent> out in the West Texas town of El Paso, Feldman arrived and he rocked their whole world.....
2009/01/31 [16:28] <@theagent> everyone sing along
2009/01/31 [16:28] <TinaGillmor-1> ajkeen
2009/01/31 [16:29] <TinaGillmor-1> I just followed Andrew
2009/01/31 [16:31] <+iPlant> hehe, keen follows briteny spears :)
2009/01/31 [16:31] <+iPlant> of course bush cares about his reputation, i hear he's obsessed about it
2009/01/31 [16:36] <@theagent> why does a South African Winery need a Texas cartoonist and a NY puppeteer?
2009/01/31 [16:37] <ustreamer-44470> does this work?
2009/01/31 [16:37] <+shareme> why not?
2009/01/31 [16:38] <TinaGillmor-1> I have a friend (comedian) who plays Jimi Hendrix on the ukulele...very funny
2009/01/31 [16:38] <+amyloo> ukes are hot right now, go figure
2009/01/31 [16:40] <@theagent> Alpine, Texas, http://local.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&ie=UTF8&t=h&layer=x&g=alpine,+texas&ll=30.357157,-103.661885&spn=0.515476,0.593948&z=11
2009/01/31 [16:40] <@theagent> hell on earth
2009/01/31 [16:41] <+RonSchott> Good geology out there in west Texas, though.
2009/01/31 [16:41] <TinaGillmor-1> Federman on uke (old footage) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=866KbFchY_4
2009/01/31 [16:41] <+cgerrish> It's the recession, we're all cutting back from guitars to ukes. I've got 2 of them.
2009/01/31 [16:43] <+amyloo> right, cliff. ukes are netbooks.
2009/01/31 [16:44] <TinaGillmor-1> watch for Wayne's talent to now surface as head writer for Jimmy Falon's new show
2009/01/31 [16:45] <@theagent> it's only a 15 hour drive from Alpine to Los Angeles. Lauren, come out for some drinks and food. My treat.
2009/01/31 [16:45] <TinaGillmor-1> not sure thick skin protects you from death threat
2009/01/31 [16:46] <TinaGillmor-1> wow that's some fast google mapping Jerry
2009/01/31 [16:46] <+shareme> Kathy S..foudner of javaranch
2009/01/31 [16:46] <+shareme> or one of the foudners of javarnch techchat site
2009/01/31 [16:46] <TinaGillmor-1> to know Loren is to love him ;-)
2009/01/31 [16:46] <@theagent> can't believe that Google has a Street View of <censored> Alpine, TX
2009/01/31 [16:47] <+Karoli> the only difference of opinion i have with what loren is saying is...
2009/01/31 [16:47] <+Karoli> it seems like if you present a persona different from your own, maybe it shouldn't be confrontational...
2009/01/31 [16:48] <TinaGillmor-1> puppydogs in person for sure
2009/01/31 [16:48] <+Karoli> with that said, i agree that no one should be treated that way.
2009/01/31 [16:48] <+Karoli> you're either the same or different, loren
2009/01/31 [16:48] <TinaGillmor-1> online there is a different thing goin on
2009/01/31 [16:49] <+Karoli> that wasn't at all what i was saying, steve
2009/01/31 [16:49] <+Karoli> I was responding to the private/public persona deal.
2009/01/31 [16:50] <+cgerrish> People present personas offline was well. We all present ourselves according to context.
2009/01/31 [16:50] <+hardaway> Nuh-nuh-nuh. Civil discourse doesn't make things boring
2009/01/31 [16:50] <+shareme> does anyone want the Thai versionof web ??
2009/01/31 [16:51] <+hardaway> I agree, Steve. We are all performing all the time
2009/01/31 [16:51] <+hardaway> I'm the same on and off line, give or take a few 4-letter words
2009/01/31 [16:51] <+WebPixie> loren's right. i have enough confrontation in my life to continue to listen to him justify why he believes there's no good in internet without confrontation
2009/01/31 [16:52] <TinaGillmor-1> some of it is armor
2009/01/31 [16:52] <+Karoli> andrew made an important distinction just now, too
2009/01/31 [16:52] <+cgerrish> They're also the most loved people.
2009/01/31 [16:52] <+hardaway> Article was a link-baiter
2009/01/31 [16:52] <+Karoli> confrontational intellectually is one thing - no problem with it
2009/01/31 [16:52] <+Karoli> confronational for the sake of being confrontational is something else entirely
2009/01/31 [16:53] <+hardaway> Right Karoli. It's personal slurs we don't want.
2009/01/31 [16:53] <+hardaway> And actually, someone SPIT on Arrington. That's not even an online gesture
2009/01/31 [16:53] <+hardaway> LeoLaporte has a lot of those people in his chatroom, too
2009/01/31 [16:53] <TinaGillmor-1> with old media the writer/talent got protection from the publication....bloggers have to shield themselves... not always easy
2009/01/31 [16:54] <+hardaway> NOT FUNNY!!!
2009/01/31 [16:54] <TinaGillmor-1> hello Jason C.
2009/01/31 [16:54] <+iPlant> i don't know why techcrunch doesn't require login for commenters
2009/01/31 [16:54] <+hardaway> Yes, put your real name down
2009/01/31 [16:55] <+Karoli> i didn't see the article they're talking about. wouldn't have read it anyway, because it's baiting
2009/01/31 [16:55] <+shareme> it does somewhat
2009/01/31 [16:55] <TinaGillmor-1> I would be all for login for commenters myself
2009/01/31 [16:55] <+Karoli> when i worked for CNN in their community, i was stalked, harassed and hunted down. even had a caller
2009/01/31 [16:56] <+hardaway> Bingo. Traffic
2009/01/31 [16:56] <+cgerrish> What do you call someone who 'just wants to get traffic?'
2009/01/31 [16:57] <+Karoli> I thought Jason's email was amazing. i haven't even processed it all yet
2009/01/31 [16:57] <+cgerrish> Is that a journalist?
2009/01/31 [16:57] <TinaGillmor-1> love that Needleman named three of the Gillmor gang in his "article"
2009/01/31 [16:57] <TinaGillmor-1> geez
2009/01/31 [16:58] <+cgerrish> Think it'll help ratings?
2009/01/31 [16:58] <+hardaway> A <censored>
2009/01/31 [16:58] <+cgerrish> Oh, I forgot ratings don't translate into revenue...
2009/01/31 [16:58] <TinaGillmor-1> <censored> sakes.. these guys put themselves out there every day
2009/01/31 [16:59] <+hardaway> Jason's email. I loved it
2009/01/31 [16:59] <+iPlant> how does one get jason's email?
2009/01/31 [16:59] <+hardaway> There's a list that I bet you can Google
2009/01/31 [17:00] <+hardaway> That's what I try to do. Something of substance. And I have a very, very small audience by comparison:-)
2009/01/31 [17:00] <+hardaway> Couldn't monetize any of my blogs in a hundred million years
2009/01/31 [17:01] <+Karoli> I think what Jason is doing is important. the problem is that most folks lack the attention span to get it.
2009/01/31 [17:01] <+cgerrish> Edit first and then publish or Shirky's model - publish everything and filter later
2009/01/31 [17:01] <TinaGillmor-1> for Jason's email https://my.binhost.com/lists/listinfo/jason
2009/01/31 [17:02] <+Karoli> my self-editor is so strong i don't publish 3/4ths of what i write. it's a stumbling-block :)
2009/01/31 [17:02] <+iPlant> thanks :)
2009/01/31 [17:02] <+cgerrish> For the most part I've been very successful in staying off of Techmeme
2009/01/31 [17:02] <TinaGillmor-1> sure
2009/01/31 [17:02] <+cgerrish> Jason - you're off base on that...
2009/01/31 [17:03] <+Karoli> I think there's a distinction to make re: jason's theory
2009/01/31 [17:04] <+cgerrish> Walking away and building a wall is not a real solution.
2009/01/31 [17:04] <+cgerrish> Education is too important...
2009/01/31 [17:04] <+Karoli> blogging isn't always for profit, or money, or even audience
2009/01/31 [17:04] <+Karoli> sometimes it's just a way to publish what's in our heads
2009/01/31 [17:05] <+hardaway> That's what my blogs are, Karoli.
2009/01/31 [17:05] <+hardaway> It's already turning to <censored>
2009/01/31 [17:05] <+shareme> hmm strange a belgium isp called SKynet
2009/01/31 [17:05] <+Karoli> cgerrish i agree with you. public schools are not a cesspool, but we have a responsibility to build them up
2009/01/31 [17:06] <+cgerrish> That's why I say, you can't walk away.
2009/01/31 [17:06] <+Karoli> what is bankrupt to me is the incessant marketing of blogs/media
2009/01/31 [17:06] <+hardaway> I don't agree with Jason.
2009/01/31 [17:06] <+hardaway> Right Karoli
2009/01/31 [17:06] <+Karoli> it creates the false notion that everything is for sale.
2009/01/31 [17:07] <+iPlant> signed up for jason's email
2009/01/31 [17:07] <+hardaway> I don't think people should walk away, but a breather every once in a while might be necessary
2009/01/31 [17:07] <TinaGillmor-1> anonymity is something people can hide behind
2009/01/31 [17:07] <+cgerrish> Arrington has engaged by walking away. He's created a push back against that kind of behavior.
2009/01/31 [17:07] <mask-648> Jason is just trying to fix it for probloggers, the other blogs do not need fixing
2009/01/31 [17:08] <+hardaway> Right.
2009/01/31 [17:08] <+shareme> difference between paush marketign and pull marketing
2009/01/31 [17:08] <+hardaway> A standard for civility?
2009/01/31 [17:08] <+hardaway> Right. Who is still blogging after five years? Very few high profile people
2009/01/31 [17:09] <+Karoli> one of my longest-term readers and favorite commenters is anonymous.
2009/01/31 [17:09] <+Karoli> has been since day one
2009/01/31 [17:09] <+cgerrish> Traffic going down may just mean a more targeted audience. Quantity isn't more important than targeted quality.
2009/01/31 [17:09] <+hardaway> OF COURSE, Cliff.
2009/01/31 [17:11] <+hardaway> Someone's daughter practicing the piano?
2009/01/31 [17:11] <ustreamer-99498> nice guys
2009/01/31 [17:11] <+Karoli> lol...timing is everything
2009/01/31 [17:11] <TinaGillmor-1> music?
2009/01/31 [17:11] <+iPlant> hehe, tunes
2009/01/31 [17:11] <TinaGillmor-1> who went on hold?
2009/01/31 [17:11] <TinaGillmor-1> geez
2009/01/31 [17:11] <ustreamer-99498> the worst ring tone ever
2009/01/31 [17:11] <+hardaway> Jason has music on hold?
2009/01/31 [17:12] <TinaGillmor-1> can we get this together boyz?
2009/01/31 [17:12] <+shareme> hehe
2009/01/31 [17:12] <+shareme> snozze music
2009/01/31 [17:12] <+hardaway> @shareme snooze?
2009/01/31 [17:13] <+cgerrish> Is it only interesting when top people are involved? What about long tail, uncovered topics (like Small Cap stocks)
2009/01/31 [17:14] <+Karoli> cgerrish that's where i was heading. i realize writing is the livelihood for some on the call
2009/01/31 [17:14] <+Karoli> but thre's a big gap between that and what i do...which is whatever I want and what's in my head
2009/01/31 [17:15] <+Karoli> unfortunately that's typical of msm...political probloggers are usually the worst, too
2009/01/31 [17:15] <+shareme> no snozze..bit difference right?
2009/01/31 [17:15] <+Karoli> just look at the pool on memeorandum
2009/01/31 [17:15] <ustreamer-99498> one person at a time please
2009/01/31 [17:16] <ustreamer-55240> waz up
2009/01/31 [17:16] <+cgerrish> Curration or micro-communities?
2009/01/31 [17:17] <ustreamer-55240> <censored>
2009/01/31 [17:17] <+hardaway> Microcommunities.
2009/01/31 [17:18] <+shareme> is not microcommunities in itself a curration inpart?
2009/01/31 [17:18] <+hardaway> TechMeme is hardly on my horizon
2009/01/31 [17:18] <+cgerrish> Hmmm... on another topic Dave Winer is looking for peole interested in playing with Instant Outliner (just now on FriendFeed)
2009/01/31 [17:18] <+hardaway> My mom: don't make fun at anyone else's expense.
2009/01/31 [17:19] <+hardaway> Has that maxim changed
2009/01/31 [17:19] <+hardaway> Winer...even:-)
2009/01/31 [17:19] <+cgerrish> For some reason that reminds of me of Tina Fey doing "Your Mother is so.." jokes.
2009/01/31 [17:20] <TinaGillmor-1> So Rafe apologized inprivate?
2009/01/31 [17:21] <TinaGillmor-1> is that what I heard?
2009/01/31 [17:22] <TinaGillmor-1> so cream rises to the top?
2009/01/31 [17:23] <TinaGillmor-1> well bigger is better right? ;-)
2009/01/31 [17:26] <+cgerrish> We're talking about the social contract. Individuals need to stand up. It's a civil rights issue.
2009/01/31 [17:26] <+RonSchott> Sure would be interesting to hear Dan Farber's perspective on the Rafe post.
2009/01/31 [17:27] <TinaGillmor-1> hmmm.
2009/01/31 [17:28] <+shareme> is economics and common sense exclusive of each other
2009/01/31 [17:29] <TinaGillmor-1> when we ignore this kind of brutal treatment and think that it "comes with the territory" it becomes a dangerous situation
2009/01/31 [17:30] <+Karoli> amen
2009/01/31 [17:30] <+Karoli> to tina and loren
2009/01/31 [17:30] <+cgerrish> Active counter measures
2009/01/31 [17:30] <+Karoli> tina, as far as cream rising to the top, i don't think that's true in the blogosphere
2009/01/31 [17:31] <TinaGillmor-1> I don't think so either Karoli
2009/01/31 [17:33] <+Karoli> that's not how it works. i know that from the work i did for webmd
2009/01/31 [17:33] <+hardaway> Where is Dan Farber today?
2009/01/31 [17:33] <+Karoli> i think Rafe came up with it.
2009/01/31 [17:33] <+Karoli> pitched it and published it
2009/01/31 [17:33] <+shareme> more subtle?
2009/01/31 [17:34] <TinaGillmor-1> "it is what it is" is on our header... funny
2009/01/31 [17:35] <+Karoli> tina, i love that. one of my favorite parts of the header
2009/01/31 [17:35] <TinaGillmor-1> thanks
2009/01/31 [17:36] <+hardaway> cgerrish I just read your blog post about Nasrudin:-) Loved it
2009/01/31 [17:36] <+hardaway> Is everything about money?
2009/01/31 [17:36] <+Karoli> i agree with andrew. i made a list today of the top 5 sites i would pay for right now
2009/01/31 [17:36] <+Karoli> and why
2009/01/31 [17:37] <+Karoli> because if they went away, my life would be less...and i would be less informed
2009/01/31 [17:37] <+cgerrish> thx francine.
2009/01/31 [17:39] <mask-648> you are only going to pay if it provides value
2009/01/31 [17:39] <+hardaway> Wall St Journal online has never been free
2009/01/31 [17:39] <+cgerrish> Todd Rundgren says music is a service not a product. It should be marketed like a service.
2009/01/31 [17:39] <+hardaway> Go Loren:-)
2009/01/31 [17:40] <+hardaway> I'd make micropayments for about 30 of my friends' blogs and NYTimes
2009/01/31 [17:41] <+cgerrish> referring to Jonathan Swift's 'modest proposal?'
2009/01/31 [17:41] <+hardaway> Right.
2009/01/31 [17:41] <+Karoli> there will be a time where we will have to make a choice -- i have no objection paying a reasonable fee for others' efforts
2009/01/31 [17:43] <+cgerrish> Economists debate whether the only way to pay is with money.
2009/01/31 [17:43] <+hardaway> We pay with gestures.
2009/01/31 [17:44] <+hardaway> Or with love, or with power and influence
2009/01/31 [17:44] <TinaGillmor-1> do what you love
2009/01/31 [17:44] <TinaGillmor-1> do it well
2009/01/31 [17:44] <+RonSchott> Interesting - Doc Searls is skiing today...
2009/01/31 [17:44] <TinaGillmor-1> the rest will follow?
2009/01/31 [17:44] <+cgerrish> Users of Goog-411 pay by helping to train their voice recognition system.
2009/01/31 [17:44] <TinaGillmor-1> but some of us need to make money to put food on the table
2009/01/31 [17:45] <+hardaway> Barter
2009/01/31 [17:45] <+Karoli> Tina, i need to put food on the table too :)
2009/01/31 [17:45] <+Karoli> ROFL, Jason. great show
2009/01/31 [17:45] <TinaGillmor-1> thanks everyone
2009/01/31 [17:45] <+hardaway> That was mindblowing. Thanks everyone!
2009/01/31 [17:45] <+cgerrish> bye
2009/01/31 [17:46] <+hardaway> bye
2009/01/31 [17:46] <TinaGillmor-1> great show and thanks again
2009/01/31 [17:46] <+RonSchott> Adios.
2009/01/31 [17:46] <mask-648> interesting show, thanks Tina
2009/01/31 [17:48] <+shareme> later
2009/01/31 [17:48] <TinaGillmor-1> thanks for being here mask
032009/01/31 [18:12] * &Ustream-Bot (bot@ustream.tv) has left #newsgang-live
Session Close: Sun Feb 01 00:00:00 2009